Extreme and Constant Packet Loss

zach0331

I just discovered that spectrum has a forum/discussion area. I've been dealing with extreme packet loss during online gaming, video chats, etc. for months now. Customer support isn't much help as they never seem to know what I am talking about. I've also reached out to the game that I am experiencing packet loss on and providing trace routes etc. and everything seems to point back to a routing issue with Spectrum, specifically with any games running on Riot game servers (League of Legends, Valorant, etc). I've tried different DNS servers, static IP addresses, VPNs and nothing changes the amount of packet loss I experience. I've even purchased my own modem recently hoping it was an issue with the Spectrum modem having the Intel Puma chipsets. Spectrum keeps sending technicians to my house with this being a problem that a technician at my house cannot solve. I don't know if Spectrum can re-route traffic, or if this is solely poor routing to begin with but it plagues my online experience every-day. I can provide tracerts and all that jazz below. For the main packet loss issues I am talking about are specific to the server IP address of 192.207.0.1.

HT_Greenfield

Edit:

Notice what Riot Games support shows for an example traceroute to a Riot Games server: that very same server with nothing but time-outs after so many time-ins, just like what you and i get.

🔗https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047225674-How-to-Use-Tracert-to-Obtain-Network-Logs

Funny how what they show for an example traceroute that has no time-outs is to a Google server instead of a Riot Games server!

On the other hand: I ran one out with a max of 64 hops and it terminated at 40 and i can tell you that while everything looks good across Charter netops, all 31 routers beyond it and ultimately supposedly the server itself are timing out. Who knows what network that is or if it's dogging it or just not responding to ICMP response requests but it must be dogging it unless the server itself isn't responding to ICMP response requests!

HT_Greenfield

Update: it turns out that Riot Games has at least four different production hosts for North America, those being in San Jose, Chicago, Ashburn and Portland.

🔗https://gameserverping.com/valorant

So screw them and that phony dev server IP address of theirs that happens to be geolocated in Los Angeles. Capture some packets with Wireshark and find out what the IP address is of the actual host they are actually sending you to in real time and run a traceroute to that and give Charter Spectrum something realistic to go on.

HT_Greenfield

Get Wireshark cued up and ready to capture and then get the game up and playing then jump back over to Wireshark and kick off a capture and then quickly jump back over to the game and play away for a few or several seconds and then quickly jump back over to Wireshark and stop the capture and poke through the packets and find out what IP address your QoS Data gaming packets are going to and then run a traceroute to that IP address and check it out. 

William_M

Hey @zach0331! Sorry you are still having trouble, as a gamer myself I definitely understand the frustration.

Unfortunately the information you have provided so far does not indicate a problem which can be escalated. Your traceroutes show you are making it to the hop immediately before the server with 0% packet loss and only ~30ms. It is only the server itself that is showing 100% loss which likely means it just does not respond to ICMP pings. I was able to verify that was the case by trying to ping it on 3 different networks with no response, despite having no issues connecting to riot servers. Having the same issue when connected to a VPN also rules out any routing problems on our end.

I do agree sending a technician won't help with this, unless you are seeing issues with everything on the internet. Have you tried bypassing your router and testing just straight to the modem after a reboot? Try closing/pausing any anti-virus, firewalls, or other programs which might affect the internet.

Can you try another traceroute to "na.leagueoflegends.com", and run a longer ping in your command prompt by typing "ping -t na.leagueoflegends.com", let it run for a few minutes, and press Ctrl+C for the final results to see if you are getting loss there?

William_M

Bypass your router, test straight to the modem after a reboot.

Close/pause any anti-virus, firewalls, or other software which might affect the internet.

Try another traceroute to "na.leagueoflegends.com".

Run a longer ping in your command prompt by typing "ping -t na.leagueoflegends.com", let it run for a few minutes, and press Ctrl+C for the final results to see if you are getting loss there.

HT_Greenfield

I think your next step is to submit a ticket to Riot Games support like their support guidance says. Hit the link below and scroll down to the last paragraph and hit the “submit a ticket” link and attach your traceroute for that IP address as well as another one for google.com, just like they demonstrate there, and ask them to name a carrier for which that server of theirs and it’s affiliated routers would respond to ICMP response requests and ask your fellow valorant players that as well.

🔗https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360047225674-How-to-Use-Tracert-to-Obtain-Network-Logs

HT_Greenfield

Hey, Zach, that was me, not William. My bad, you guys, for being no help at all here. One last thing before i go. A better question for Riot Games would be if that IP address and any of their public peering exchange points in Atlanta are responding to ICMP echo requests because, if not, how are you supposed to know whether the router you’re jumping onto from Charter netops in Atlanta isn’t one of them.

HT_Greenfield

You’re welcome and yeah i don’t get that either. The fact that they have at least six valorant production servers in N.A. all fronted by one and the same IP address that doesn’t have a DNS pointer record and doesn’t seem to respond to ICMP echo requests means to me that they are holding their cards pretty close to their vest. I think It also means that if you’re able to play at all, then you are hitting one of their public peering exchange points somewhere along the way if not right there at that “Hotlanta” jump-off. 🙂

🔗https://support-valorant.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360055678634-Server-Select

William_M

@zach0331 The PeeringDB page can be helpful but first we would need to identify bad routing or an individual hop that is the cause of packet loss. playvalorant.com, leagueoflegends.com, and 192.207.0.1 all appear to be routing to the same data center in Virginia when east coast (At least from Florida according to my Traceroutes.) I was recommending the website since 192.207.0.1 is not responding to pings so it doesn't help us.

If you run those additional ping tests (and make sure to share the final results at the end) I will be happy to review them but at this time I don't think there is any problem with our service. I second @HT_Greenfield suggestion of contacting Riot again and checking if there is another IP to test besides the websites. If they believe it is a Spectrum issue, we would appreciate more specifics on exactly what they think is the problem and what tests they ran to determine that. Please make sure to let them know you are not measuring packet loss when pinging through command prompt or wireshark, only measuring it in game, and that the issue persists while on a VPN.

William_M

You need to use -t to make the ping run continuously, "ping -t playvalorant.com". Let it run for at least a few minutes, then stop it with Ctrl+C for your final results. If it doesn't show any packet loss, try running it for longer.

Yes, playvalorant.com is the website not the game server but it's hosted in the same area in Virginia for US East so should have the same routing, and we can actually ping it for testing purposes.

I understand they are asking that we reach out to them, but we are not going to be able to do that without some kind of evidence of an issue or other customers reporting the same problem. All tests you have run have shown 0% packet loss. There have been no complaints on any of the social media platforms we monitor. Any Spectrum specific routing or peering issues would likely be resolved when connecting through a VPN.

I'd like to take this a step back and get some clarification about the problem. Exactly how much packet loss are you getting, and what are you using to measure it? Have you tested different devices? You are playing on US East servers? Any friends nearby with similar issues?

William_M

@zach0331 I am on Reddit. I have checked multiple Valorant subreddits and the Spectrum subreddit. I also monitor Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and I have not seen one other person make this same complaint. I am part of several large gaming communities, and have not heard this complaint. My sister plays Valorant on US East and does not have this issue. Your one link is from TWO YEARS AGO from a user who later made a post complaining about slow speeds. You are talking about an issue between the second largest ISP and one of the most popular gaming companies, this would be impacting hundreds of thousands of people so I would certainly expect to see at least hundreds of recent reddit posts.

The tests to other servers ARE NOT IRRELEVANT. I have told you repeatedly, the game servers and websites are hosted in the same location, will have the same routing, and are the only IPs we can test. Ping, Ping Plotter, Wireshark, all show no loss to any IP we can test. If you have 0% packet loss to every single server, including ones near where the Valorant game server is, but have a constant 20% loss in game, then it is a Valorant issue NOT A SPECTRUM ISSUE. You also have the same problem with a VPN. If you don't have packet loss to all servers on the VPN but then still have the packet loss playing Valorant that is somewhere between the VPN and Valorant, NOT A SPECTRUM ISSUE.

I tried to help. Online gaming is my passion and I'm willing to spend more energy figuring out issues like this than almost anyone here, but at this point you need to contact Riot for further assistance. We have provided you evidence our service is working perfectly and you can provide to Riot. If their troubleshooting showed any issues with Spectrum they should be able to provide evidence for you to give to us, not just a peeringDB page with no explanation what they think the issue is.

William_M

The evidence is your ping tests to any other server, even their own website in the same location as the game server, showing 0% packet loss. The evidence is the issue persisting on a VPN. The evidence is a complete lack of other reports of an issue as serious and easy to detect/recreate as a constant 20% packet loss between the 2nd largest NA ISP and 5th most popular NA online game.

William_M

@zach0331

Nothing is happening at that hop. No we will not email them without evidence of an issue. Again, 192.207.0.1 does not respond to pings. You are able to join games, so clearly that traceroute is not representative of the problem. We are looking for something causing ~20% packet loss that carries on to all following hops including the destination IP. Your tests to Amazon and Google show 0% loss with low latency. Any peering issue between Spectrum and Riot would be resolved when connecting through a VPN. 20% constant packet loss is very noticeable and it is impossible other Spectrum customers would not be complaining if they were getting that.

To demonstrate I downloaded Valorant on my home PC. I am also east coast with residential Spectrum Internet.

Not one dropped packet during the match I played.

Yet still not getting a ping response or completed traceroute from that IP. This does not indicate an issue, at most it is inconclusive.